Category: fuel pump

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Replacing the Fuel Pump (Post #626) October 2, 2023

Fuel Pump Swap

In my previous post I talked about the fuel pump and it’s lack of suckage of fuel to make the Big White Bus go down the road. Or more importantly in the short term, get out of the shoppe so I can proceed with the rust repairs.

I ordered the fuel pump from Atlantic British. As I’ve said earlier. If you order from them the part will not officially ship until the day after the first business day in which they receive the order. So if you order on Saturday, they will see the order on Monday, and it will be picked up on Tuesday. Then it will be in transit. For us here in the central southern plains that means a minimum of 6 days to arrive. I think I got this one in 7 days. I’ve come to accept this as the way it’s gonna be. Since the Range Rover is not my daily driver this does not upset me anymore. It just takes extra planning when you need something.

Removing the derelict pump is pretty easy. Turn the ring first. This may take some tapping with a screwdriver and a hammer. Take it easy and take your time. Don’t damage the ring.

The second step if it wasn’t your first step is take the fuel lines off. You will need a pair of 15mm wrenches. Once the lines are out of the way you can rock the fuel pump back and forth while pulling up. It will eventually come up.

The “bowl” will have fuel in it commiserate with how full the tank is with petrol. Pour this out while the fuel pump is still over the tank opening. Be prepared to clean up some petrol if it spills.

Reassembly is a reverse of the process. The most difficult of the tasks is getting the rings of the seal past the tank opening. You can gently coax it past the lip with a flathead screwdriver and steady pressure pushing down on the pump.

Is there a way to use a lubricant…maybe, I didn’t research that. I’ve never used lube for the install, so its not necessary for success.

Take it easy with the float and its electronic bits. Don’t bang it around.

That’s about it for the swap. I need to test the pump and get the the BWB running again. I’ll give it some test cranks to get fuel back up to the fuel rail then reinstall the plugs and fire her up. If I’ve sorted everything we should have a running Range Rover.

Thanks for ready and Happy Rovering.

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The Big White Bus Will Not Start (Post #624) September 18, 2023

Fuel pump

Well, awesome. The Big White Bus won’t start.

I have fired it up once since I parked it in my newly constructed shoppe 5 years ago. I guess I should have expected there would be “issues”. But I wasn’t expecting the issue to be this one.

Mr. Fisher came over and we diagnosed the issue. We started with checking the power at the pump. As you may be aware, when you turn the key over it powers the pump briefly. So if you just “turn on the key” and go back there to check the voltage you won’t find any. That’s why it takes either some seriously creative use of a volt meter or you get one of the bestest friends to come over and turn the key for you. We had voltage all the way through the wiring harness.

We then confirmed we have spark from the ignition system. I pulled the number 1 plug and with a screwdriver I grounded it and watched for spark. You can buy a fancy spark tester, matter of fact I think I own one. I have no idea where it is though. Spark confirmed.

So we have two of the three things (Meatloaf would say that “ain’t bad”) to make the vehicle run. Air and Spark. Now why aren’t we getting fuel.

I pulled the gas line off at the regulator on the back side top of the engine and had Mr. Fisher crank the ignition. We should have had gas squirting out if it worked. It did not. This fit with me NOT hearing the pump run when the ignition was turned over.

The only thing left was to pull the fuel pump and do a visual inspection. What I found was not expected. I said, “Wow.” a lot in the video. There were several parts that were obviously degrading due to being submerged in petrol for so long. There was visible rust on the steel parts as well. Generally the pump was in a terrible state. I was not aware that petrol would do that to those parts. The only gas I ever put in my Classic is 100% real gas, unless I am in Texas where they only sell ethanol (at least the last time I was buying gas there). You would expect ethanol to eventually separate and turn to water. You can read all about that on the Road Guardians website.

I will be replacing the fuel pump and have ordered the part from Atlantic British. I found some that were cheaper on Amazon. But my skepticism and need to have it delivered before next October weighed heavily on my decision where to purchase. The pictures all looked like the pumps were manufactured in the same place. Same white plastic. Same blue plugs.

Fuel pump
PRC9409K

If you look on Amazon you’ll see the pumps look like the same ones. If I had unlimited funds or sponsorship, I’d buy one from everyone and do a side-by-side comparison.

All this “BUY IT NEW” has me thinking about what this would cost if we just fixed the pump. All you need to do is replace the pump in the collector can (that bottom part). I’ll do a post about that in the coming weeks.

So…do I drain the tank too? If the gasoline HAS turned to varnish I should probably put some treatment in there. I’m thinking I’m gonna add a silly amount of STP Fuel Injector cleaner in that tank. I can say, WHEN I get it running It will run for quite a while before I shut her down. I want to give the truck plenty of time to dislodge any crap in the fuel lines. I’m also guessing I’ll need to swap the fuel filter too.

If its not one thing, its another. It really, never ends.

Mr. Fisher also brought over his Viair Compressor. We spent some time looking at it and checking out all its features.

Thanks for reading and Happy Rovering.

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A Long List of Repairs (Post #592) 3/30/2021

I’ve been sidelined by a knee surgery. I’ve had an issue for a while (over a year) and I decided it was finally time to get it sorted out. So while I convalesce, I thought I’d put up a post detailing what I believe to be a mostly concise list of repairs that are required on the Big White Bus. We are getting another round of stimulus money from the O’Biden administration. And why not spend it on my Land Rover? Let’s get started:

Ignition

You’ve read my mis-adventures with my ignition system (Okierover). I mostly attempted to replace the entire system with GM off the shelf parts. In the end I could not stop the ignition modules from overheating. This leads to them failing basically every two weeks. With “lifetime warranty” I only bought the part twice. And when I was completely convinced I would either have to drive in the right lane, everywhere, or doing something else, I had trained myself to change the module in less than two minutes. Standing on the side of I-35 during rush hour traffic every two weeks for 4 months is not among the smartest things I’ve ever done.

At this point I’ve decided that I will replace the entire ignition system with an after-market version. I haven’t picked that version yet, but know it will be my first repair. This means the distributor, ignition coil, modules, all of it will be replaced. I currently have a “Lucas”1 setup. I don’t believe it is reliable. I have driven her with this setup, but I’m not convinced it is safe.

Alternator

Once again I am faced with a failed alternator. I have written many times about the alternator issues (Okierover). I bought the NAPA alternator back in 2005. I have replaced it under warranty 6 times (with 7 coming). Sometimes you can’t beat a NAPA warranty, even if the part only lasts about 2-3 years before it fails. It still surprises me that an OEM alternator from the factory lasted 15 years but a replacement part would not give me 2 years of service.

The BWB has a slow battery drain, I suspect it is the diode pack as it was three times before. Once a diode fails, it’s over. The alternator will still charge, but it will also discharge the battery when the engine is off. If you still have any of your hearing left, you can hear tell-tale ultra high pitch sound coming from the back of the alternator when the engine is off.

Heater Fan Blower Motor

This repair is in progress, you’ve seen the posts (Okierover). All that is left is to source the new hoses and the foam gasket sets and such. I broke a couple of plastic bits and found a great source for spares in Matt Gaum (Roadside Werx) Some of these plastic bits are starting to become unobtainium. 

This leads me to contemplate 3D printing of these parts. I’ll look for a 3d printer and do some research into the types of plastics that might work best. I’m a little surprised I haven’t seen someone doing this already. If you have, leave us a link in the comments.

Clunky Steering

At some point the bushing on the steering shaft has slipped. I need to pull it all out and get it corrected. It is not dangerous, it’s just annoying.

Rear Compartment Tie-Downs

I can’t believe I’ve driven around with a hundred plus pounds of tools and spares NOT tied down in the back of my rig. I have only avoided an epic stupid mistake because I’m a hell-of-a-driver and have avoided serious accidents.

Nice to Have

Now let me talk about what we in the Project Management game call, “Nice to Have’s”. 

Radio

I have researched a replacement system that I think will be great. When I buy it I’ll do a full write up. Bluetooth…backup camera… Van Halen “Eruption” or Wagner’s “Die Walküre” at 120dB depends on your situation.

Air Conditioning

This probably shouldn’t be a nice to have. I live in the southern plains and I promise it gets hot here. This is more than likely going to be a must have/critical. This system is a total loss. I will have to replace EVERYTHING including hoses. The testing for leaks will need to be epic if this is going to be a long term solution.

Power Steering Leak

I STILL have a power steering leak. After all my issues with leaking steering boxes you’d think this wouldn’t plague me. You’ve seen where I bought a rebuilt steering box (Facebook) from Carsteeringwholesale.com (NOT RECOMMENDED, DO NOT TRUST). I received the steering box from them and it was leaking out of the box. I fussed and yelled at them to no avail and they sent me a replacement (that I had to pay shipping on) that leaked EVEN WORSE than the shitty one they sent me to start with. Buyer beware.

I have another slow leak and will at some point need to replace this pump too.

Mystery Leak

My left front hub assembly is leaking. I’m not sure which part has the leak. I’ll have to find it eventually and replace the seal or brake caliper, or whatever it is.

Gas Gauge Uncertainty

When I replaced my last fuel pump (Okierover) I managed to get the float out of sorts and its basically a mystery as to how much fuel I have in the tank at any time except when I fill it. I need to get in there and futz with the level and see if I can fix that.

Cosmetics

Rugs

I would LOVE to have new rugs. Maybe a proper steam cleaning would do the job, I don’t know.

Seat Covers

I have looked at a lot of seat covers. I think I’m leaning toward a NON-Leather cover. Leather covers are readily available and modestly priced. I just think I can get a more durable, no maintenance option sourced that wouldn’t make me cry a little bit inside each time I slide into the BWB with mud all over me or soaking wet. Oklahoma summers are not kind to old leather.

Tint

I don’t need gangster dark tint. I think a tint one these plethora of windows would go a long way toward keeping me cool in the summer.

Paint

The BWB is losing her clearcoat. And the vinyl D pillars are quite knackered. In a perfect world with everything else repaired, I’d probably throw some paint on her.

Eviction

I have a mouse somewhere in the truck. I noticed some evidence of a mouse making its home inside. I couldn’t blame them with -14F this winter. Car spiders (Okierover) are one thing, I can’t have mice.

1: The name Lucas can be licensed by just about anyone wanting to use their name. The last set of “Lucas” parts I got were made in China….CHINA. You should not associate quality replacement parts to anything made in China.

Never fear… I have not let my wrenching skills go to waste. I helped my dear friend Eric and his son Vallie change the plugs and coils on their 2000 Jaguar S-type. We had a great afternoon. And it was a fine example of no matter what you think a job will entail…something will go wrong and will require a part no one has in stock.

Pro Tip: Jaguar (Ford) coolant hose “T”s are made out of some form of plastic-mache and hope.

Thanks for reading and Happy Rovering

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Replacement Fuel Pump Part Numbers (Post #447) 2/10/2014

I was reading a post on the Facebook Land Rover Owners page about the replacement of a fuel pump on a Land Rover Defender. The North American model Defender uses many of the same parts as a Range Rover Classic and Discovery I. If you are a regular reader of the blog you know I’ve just recently replaced my fuel pump and now have a spare unit waiting for the electric pump on the shelf.

https://okierover.com/fuel-pump-replacement/

I’ve posted many times about the prices dealers charge for parts. The major parts houses have good prices but often charge more for a part when an equivalent part can be fond for cheaper if you only knew what the part numbers were.

Auto zone in Boise tried quoting me over $1,000 and I called BS. Is there a certain part number so they don’t try misquoting the price? – Cameron Eugene

 

We all try to find a cheaper price. It is common for a parts supplier to hear Range Rover or Land Rover and they immediately think the owner is made of money.

MONEY-BOAT-web-image-blog
Nearly every one with a television has seen the Geico “Made of Money” commercials.

The gentleman doing the swap is John Monaghan. John works for GB 4×4 Radios. These are the fine folks that upgrade and repair the radio units for Land Rovers.

He had a friend that worked at an Autozone and he let him “browse” the stock to find the right parts. The following quotes are John’s from the thread:

Thank God I have a buddy at Autozone that let me go to the back and look in every box. Ask for this EP375 from a Chevy, now they have it and for just $87. This is priceless info for my fellow American Land Rover brethren, enjoy and save a mint.

acdelco

Even the top electrical connection is the same.
Or you can use US auto store O’Reilly’s. Part numbers there is Delphi: FE0110. And sock filter is Delphi : FS0001.

delco

There are two small plastic lugs on the bottom of the new pump that have to snipped off, dead easy, this way it sits fully in your old base, then you will have to use a new fuel line with two metal hose clamps or in UK Jubilee clips. Job done and a mint saved!

clampWhile I’m here I might as well add this pics, shows both lugs snapped off as needed with needle nose pliers, clamp and the hose size you need

Jeffrey Baker added this for the thread:

Pump fits many V8 GM fuel injected motors. $72 for the Delphi or Bosch part#69218 at NAPA. Carter equivalent is $52 part #p74006. Airtex also makes this pump not sure of number though.

Denis Guyvner added this helpful tip:

I have also heard that what causes these to fail is continually running your fuel level at a low amount. The fuel pump needs the fuel to keep it cool. Heat is what kills the pump.

And finally John Monaghan added this final note:

FYI: I’ve done this A/C Delco fuel pump swap many times on different Rovers in my collection and have saved a fortune over Dealer and OEM Land Rover parts vendor $$$$ pump prices. Looks like I’m going to be doing another this week (will add DIY pics here and A/C Delco pump part numbers), seems my 1988 Classic’s pump is toast too, sat too long low on gas without starting it, so the fuel dries to a varnish up inside the pump’s rotor… locking it solid, then you try several times to start it, the armature in the pump’s electric motor does not move so it burns the carbon brush mounts, rendering the pump dead and beyond repair! So never leave your fuel injected Rover parked up with out starting it monthly and with less than 1/2 a tank of petrol. Lesson learned 🙁

So much great stuff in one post. This might seem like a complicated project. It is not. I walk through it almost step by step in my link above. With a little deductive reasoning most anyone should be able to swap the pump out of the unit especially if it is a near direct swap.

Thanks to all the guys on the thread and thanks to John for great details. It will save us all several hundreds of dollars.

Thanks for reading, check out the Facebook group Land Rover Owners, and Happy Rovering.

 

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Fuel Pump Replacement (Post #326) 4/5/2013

196,000 miles out of one fuel pump. That’s pretty good. But as you have read in previous posts it was time for a new pump. Let’s first sort out the process for testing the fuel pump.
Checking for fuel at the fuel rail was first. I disconnected the fuel line from the fuel rail.
Remove the hose clamp. Place a rag, preferably a large one like a t-shirt under it. You are checking for fuel coming out. WARNING. When you turn the key to the on position it activates the fuel pump. The fuel pump will run for a short burst to pressurize the rail. It will then shut off. A lot of fuel will come out when you turn on the key. It may even shoot out on to the engine. DO NOT DO THIS WITH A HOT ENGINE.
When I disconnected mine, no fuel came out. So that told me the pump did not run. So I climbed in the back and disassembled the back to get to the fuel pump access panel. Some time in the late 1990 models they started manufacturing an access panel to repair the frequently failing pumps.
I wanted to first check to make sure I didn’t have a blown fuse. I couldn’t remember which fuse was the one for the pump. So I pulled all of these and checked for a blown one. I also reseated the fuel pump relay (silver one) located between the green and brown items. All the fuses were good. On to the pump.
Remove the carpet and the dogs from the rear of the vehicle and access the panel.

I don’t know why they think it is okay to get in the back of the Range Rover.
Luna and Paisley
Remove the six screws. Move them to a safe place. Remember you are about to open the fuel tank. If you have something that might fall in the tank…it will fall in the tank. Secure all loose items NOW.
After you are open you are dealing with two fuel lines, a ground wire, and the power connector.
There is also a fair amount of dirt under there. I used a shop vac to get as much as I could to eliminate debris from getting in the tank. Vacuum before you start to remove any bits. Vacuum again after you have knock the wrenches against stuff.
Pull the connector and set your volt-ohm meter to volts. Have someone turn on the ignition. You will see a voltage spike for a few seconds. Remember the pump only runs for a few seconds. I checked across all the combinations of wires. I had power to the plug so….it had to be the pump.
Disconnect the fuel lines and the ground wire.
You are going to use a mallet (I used a rubber one) to hit a large flat-head screwdriver to turn the ring. They make a special tool for this…I didn’t buy it. Take your time and lightly tap this ring until it spins enough times to remove it.
The next series of pictures is me pulling the pump from the tank. 

Holding the fuel supply lines out of the way.

Remember the fuel level indicator is connected to the float. So as you are pulling it out you will angle the pump to slide it out. The lower part of the pump is a sump that keeps fuel around the base of the pump. This way the vehicle is not starved for fuel when the tank is low and you turn a corner and slosh the fuel to one side.

So as you are pulling the pump assembly out. Let the fuel run out of the pump. This will prevent fuel being spilled in the cab.

Fuel draining out.

I inverted the pump and drained more fuel out. You can see the official Land Rover Tool Kit in this picture. I needed to use it due to having an insufficient collection of tools in my tool bag. I remedied this by purchasing a socket set for the on-board tool bag.

Once I was back in my garage I took the old pump apart. Look at the debris attached to the filter. NASTY!

Look at the debris in the bottom of the “starvation tank”. 

While I was sourcing a new part I just placed the access panel over the hole and replaced the carpet.

I ordered a new pump from Atlantic British and paid the up charge for it to be delivered in 3 days. 300$ for the kit. I originally intended to repair the old one. I talked myself out of that due to my schedule this week. Two assignments, a test, and the weather (four inches of rain in four days, thank you God.) made this an easy decision. I will rebuild the old pump with a replacement pump. I expect it will cost less than a hundred dollars to replace the pump portion.

With the new pump in hand, I went about installing it.

I placed the rubber seal in the tank and then fitted the pump through the seal. It was a tight fit. You then screw down with the red securing ring. Use the screwdriver and rubber mallet. Take it easy and take your time. No need to use the mallet like Thor uses Mjölnir (Wikipedia).
Connect the power connector pig tail thing they send in the kit. Reconnect the fuel lines. 
With the access panel still open, I started her up. I watched for fuel leaks. NONE. So I buttoned everything back up.
I drove the Range Rover over to Braum’s in Tri-City to have ice cream with my grand kids (and my daughter and son-in-law). I had a single dip of chocolate chip on a sugar cone. Yummo.
The Range Rover ran great. I noticed the fuel gauge had me at a quarter of a tank. With a new pump and new indicator I thought it prudent to fill the tank and make sure the gauge was working correctly. It was all good and showed a full tank.
I pulled over in the parking lot of the Chickasaw Nation Training facility. This is the old T.G.&Y. building. I really loved that job. I called JagGuy and chatted about lots of stuff and he looked up replacement pumps will we gabbed. I’m lucky to have him, both as an automotive resource and friend.
As I was chatting I saw the state bird of Oklahoma, a Scissor-tailed flycatcher fly by. Spring has officially come to Oklahoma.
On the Difficulty Scale I’d rate this a 2. It is not difficult, just a tad fiddly.
Thank you to Justin and Lecia for letting me maroon the Range Rover in their driveway. Thank you to Lecia for helping me check for electrical continuity by turning the key while I was in the back.
I am heading to Fort Washita for the annual rendezvous this weekend. Get out and support your local historical society this spring.
Thanks for reading and Happy Rovering.
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Delinquent Posting (Post #325) 4/2/2013

Sorry for the delinquency of my posting. I have been busy I swear it! You know the Range Rover is marooned at my daughter’s house. It was initially thought to be a coil issue. While the coil was probably a problem, but it turns out to be the fuel pump.

I know! How could I miss that? Well I didn’t. The three things you need to make a Land Rover are AIR, GAS, and SPARK. Contrary to popular myth MAGIC has very little to do with it. If you break it down to those three components it is really quite simple to figure out why your Land Rover stranded you in the parking lot of a rural post office.

I diagnosed the spark as “failed”. It was. It was so weak it was probably going to give me a problem in the near future. That is sorted out with the new Flamethrower coil.

I called JagGuy and confirmed how the fuel system worked. So it’s the fuel pump. I am really wanting to repair the old one by swapping out just the pump. For convenience I will replace it with a replacement pump. I will repair the original by rebuilding it. That way I will have an on-the-shelf-spare.

Sorry no pictures. I have a test and an assignment due on Wednesday. I don’t have the time to play right now. I gave myself a break on Saturday and Sunday. Lately it seems I’ve been exhausted for no apparent reason. The rest was appreciated greatly by this old sack of bones.

Next week will have two posts, one to repair the Range Rover and the other the results of the Fort Washita Rendezvous which is this weekend. April 5-7.

Aaron checked in and left a funny email.

“I thought of you the other day.
I changed the oil on my 93 Range Rover Classic and I didn’t even burn my eyebrows!”

My reply,

“LOL. Eyebrows are over-rated.”

Thanks for checking in Aaron, it was good to hear from you.

Today was April Fool’s Day. I pranked NO ONE.
It was also Killer Dave’s beautiful wife Elizabeth’s birthday. Happy Birthday Liz.
It was also one of my Marine brother’s birthday, Happy Birthday Wally Beddoe. He has a Marine-centric blog (http://www.usmc81.com/) which is quite well regarded in the blogosphere.

Thanks for reading and Happy Rovering.

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