Category: fuel pump

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Draining the Fuel Tank on a Range Rover Classic (Post #668) 8/25/2024

In this video, I rid the Big Broken Bus, Mrs. Okierover’s new name for the Range Rover Classic, of the crappy fuel in the gas tank. It was not a terribly difficult job, but it was annoying due to the cheap Chinese pump I bought to do the job.

I tried initially to go through the fill tube. That didn’t produce any results worth mentioning. I then decided I could pull the damn fuel pump assembly AGAIN and that would provide the access I needed. It did.

I got nearly all the gas out. It was about 15 gallons. 15 gallons of bad fuel. I took that fuel and added it to the F-150s gas tank. The F-150 has a 30 gallon tank. So adding 12 gallons of questionable fuel to her probably won’t make any difference. I also treated it with Stabil. It won’t take long to burn it up. I go through 15 gallons a week getting to work.

I added 5 gallons of new fuel to the Range Rover and treated it with Sea Foam Fuel Treatment. The label and the interwebs say this will remove varnish. I’m skeptical. I read a bunch of sites and there were lots of proposed solutions. One even said if you use E85 fuel it would eventually break down the varnish. As a rule, I don’t use ethanol in the Range Rover. I know there are times when you must, but generally I avoid it. Ethanol also doesn’t hold up as well as 100% when stored, or so I am told.

The old girl loved the new gas and purred happily after all the bad gas was pulled through the gas lines. I’ll start her up every week and run her to temperature. Hopefully this will minimize the varnishing. Time will tell.

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Fuel Pump Failure: Part Duex (Post #667) 8/19/2024

Well here we go again. I decided this weekend I was going to get the Big White Bus started and move her out of the shoppe. I tried to get her started and nothing. I didn’t hear the fuel pump kick on. That’s…a bad sign.

So I asked my son to help me test. I had him turn the ignition on while I checked the voltage at the fuel pump. I had voltage.

That eliminated a LOT of testing of other components. I had a bad feeling the fuel pump was crapped out again. Turns out I was right. It was completely varnished.

What the hell right? I put 5 gallons of fresh gas in it back in December after I replaced the rubber filler hoses. I guess that wasn’t enough fresh gas. I called my friend JagGuy and asked some “chemistry” questions regarding gasoline.

Is it possible that the gas in the tank is so far gone that it varnishes? Its possible was his reply. We came to the same conclusion that all the gas needs to be removed and fresh gas added. We also talked about fuel stabilizer. I’ve never used fuel stabilizer. I guess I’m going to use it going forward.

Who knows how long the Big White Bus is going to be laid up until I can get her running regularly? Not me and I’m the project manager! So fuel stabilizer is going to be all the rage. And I’ll start running her on a regular basis.

What is odd are all these “This [insert vehicle type here] has been sitting in this field for 30 years!!! Will it start?!?!” videos on Youtube. JagGuy surmised, probably accurately that most of the truly ancient stuff has mechanical fuel pumps. Throw in a fresh battery, hope the rats haven’t eaten the wires, and if they drain the tank and use fresh gas…maybe that’s how they get them started.

Otherwise I’m calling bullshit on all these videos. There’s no way 30 year old gas is any good. My gas is five years, old give or take a year, and it’s crap.

Now I’m going to be tasked with trying to drain the tank. And then what do I do with it. Do I dare trying to mix it with good gas and burning it in my cars? What do you think?

If you watch the video you’ll see a demonstration on how simple it is to fix the fuel pump.

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Thanks for reading and Happy Rovering.

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Replacing the Fuel Pump (Post #626) October 2, 2023

Fuel Pump Swap

In my previous post I talked about the fuel pump and it’s lack of suckage of fuel to make the Big White Bus go down the road. Or more importantly in the short term, get out of the shoppe so I can proceed with the rust repairs.

I ordered the fuel pump from Atlantic British. As I’ve said earlier. If you order from them the part will not officially ship until the day after the first business day in which they receive the order. So if you order on Saturday, they will see the order on Monday, and it will be picked up on Tuesday. Then it will be in transit. For us here in the central southern plains that means a minimum of 6 days to arrive. I think I got this one in 7 days. I’ve come to accept this as the way it’s gonna be. Since the Range Rover is not my daily driver this does not upset me anymore. It just takes extra planning when you need something.

Removing the derelict pump is pretty easy. Turn the ring first. This may take some tapping with a screwdriver and a hammer. Take it easy and take your time. Don’t damage the ring.

The second step if it wasn’t your first step is take the fuel lines off. You will need a pair of 15mm wrenches. Once the lines are out of the way you can rock the fuel pump back and forth while pulling up. It will eventually come up.

The “bowl” will have fuel in it commiserate with how full the tank is with petrol. Pour this out while the fuel pump is still over the tank opening. Be prepared to clean up some petrol if it spills.

Reassembly is a reverse of the process. The most difficult of the tasks is getting the rings of the seal past the tank opening. You can gently coax it past the lip with a flathead screwdriver and steady pressure pushing down on the pump.

Is there a way to use a lubricant…maybe, I didn’t research that. I’ve never used lube for the install, so its not necessary for success.

Take it easy with the float and its electronic bits. Don’t bang it around.

That’s about it for the swap. I need to test the pump and get the the BWB running again. I’ll give it some test cranks to get fuel back up to the fuel rail then reinstall the plugs and fire her up. If I’ve sorted everything we should have a running Range Rover.

Thanks for ready and Happy Rovering.

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The Big White Bus Will Not Start (Post #624) September 18, 2023

Fuel pump

Well, awesome. The Big White Bus won’t start.

I have fired it up once since I parked it in my newly constructed shoppe 5 years ago. I guess I should have expected there would be “issues”. But I wasn’t expecting the issue to be this one.

Mr. Fisher came over and we diagnosed the issue. We started with checking the power at the pump. As you may be aware, when you turn the key over it powers the pump briefly. So if you just “turn on the key” and go back there to check the voltage you won’t find any. That’s why it takes either some seriously creative use of a volt meter or you get one of the bestest friends to come over and turn the key for you. We had voltage all the way through the wiring harness.

We then confirmed we have spark from the ignition system. I pulled the number 1 plug and with a screwdriver I grounded it and watched for spark. You can buy a fancy spark tester, matter of fact I think I own one. I have no idea where it is though. Spark confirmed.

So we have two of the three things (Meatloaf would say that “ain’t bad”) to make the vehicle run. Air and Spark. Now why aren’t we getting fuel.

I pulled the gas line off at the regulator on the back side top of the engine and had Mr. Fisher crank the ignition. We should have had gas squirting out if it worked. It did not. This fit with me NOT hearing the pump run when the ignition was turned over.

The only thing left was to pull the fuel pump and do a visual inspection. What I found was not expected. I said, “Wow.” a lot in the video. There were several parts that were obviously degrading due to being submerged in petrol for so long. There was visible rust on the steel parts as well. Generally the pump was in a terrible state. I was not aware that petrol would do that to those parts. The only gas I ever put in my Classic is 100% real gas, unless I am in Texas where they only sell ethanol (at least the last time I was buying gas there). You would expect ethanol to eventually separate and turn to water. You can read all about that on the Road Guardians website.

I will be replacing the fuel pump and have ordered the part from Atlantic British. I found some that were cheaper on Amazon. But my skepticism and need to have it delivered before next October weighed heavily on my decision where to purchase. The pictures all looked like the pumps were manufactured in the same place. Same white plastic. Same blue plugs.

Fuel pump
PRC9409K

If you look on Amazon you’ll see the pumps look like the same ones. If I had unlimited funds or sponsorship, I’d buy one from everyone and do a side-by-side comparison.

All this “BUY IT NEW” has me thinking about what this would cost if we just fixed the pump. All you need to do is replace the pump in the collector can (that bottom part). I’ll do a post about that in the coming weeks.

So…do I drain the tank too? If the gasoline HAS turned to varnish I should probably put some treatment in there. I’m thinking I’m gonna add a silly amount of STP Fuel Injector cleaner in that tank. I can say, WHEN I get it running It will run for quite a while before I shut her down. I want to give the truck plenty of time to dislodge any crap in the fuel lines. I’m also guessing I’ll need to swap the fuel filter too.

If its not one thing, its another. It really, never ends.

Mr. Fisher also brought over his Viair Compressor. We spent some time looking at it and checking out all its features.

Thanks for reading and Happy Rovering.

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A Long List of Repairs (Post #592) 3/30/2021

I’ve been sidelined by a knee surgery. I’ve had an issue for a while (over a year) and I decided it was finally time to get it sorted out. So while I convalesce, I thought I’d put up a post detailing what I believe to be a mostly concise list of repairs that are required on the Big White Bus. We are getting another round of stimulus money from the O’Biden administration. And why not spend it on my Land Rover? Let’s get started:

Ignition

You’ve read my mis-adventures with my ignition system (Okierover). I mostly attempted to replace the entire system with GM off the shelf parts. In the end I could not stop the ignition modules from overheating. This leads to them failing basically every two weeks. With “lifetime warranty” I only bought the part twice. And when I was completely convinced I would either have to drive in the right lane, everywhere, or doing something else, I had trained myself to change the module in less than two minutes. Standing on the side of I-35 during rush hour traffic every two weeks for 4 months is not among the smartest things I’ve ever done.

At this point I’ve decided that I will replace the entire ignition system with an after-market version. I haven’t picked that version yet, but know it will be my first repair. This means the distributor, ignition coil, modules, all of it will be replaced. I currently have a “Lucas”1 setup. I don’t believe it is reliable. I have driven her with this setup, but I’m not convinced it is safe.

Alternator

Once again I am faced with a failed alternator. I have written many times about the alternator issues (Okierover). I bought the NAPA alternator back in 2005. I have replaced it under warranty 6 times (with 7 coming). Sometimes you can’t beat a NAPA warranty, even if the part only lasts about 2-3 years before it fails. It still surprises me that an OEM alternator from the factory lasted 15 years but a replacement part would not give me 2 years of service.

The BWB has a slow battery drain, I suspect it is the diode pack as it was three times before. Once a diode fails, it’s over. The alternator will still charge, but it will also discharge the battery when the engine is off. If you still have any of your hearing left, you can hear tell-tale ultra high pitch sound coming from the back of the alternator when the engine is off.

Heater Fan Blower Motor

This repair is in progress, you’ve seen the posts (Okierover). All that is left is to source the new hoses and the foam gasket sets and such. I broke a couple of plastic bits and found a great source for spares in Matt Gaum (Roadside Werx) Some of these plastic bits are starting to become unobtainium. 

This leads me to contemplate 3D printing of these parts. I’ll look for a 3d printer and do some research into the types of plastics that might work best. I’m a little surprised I haven’t seen someone doing this already. If you have, leave us a link in the comments.

Clunky Steering

At some point the bushing on the steering shaft has slipped. I need to pull it all out and get it corrected. It is not dangerous, it’s just annoying.

Rear Compartment Tie-Downs

I can’t believe I’ve driven around with a hundred plus pounds of tools and spares NOT tied down in the back of my rig. I have only avoided an epic stupid mistake because I’m a hell-of-a-driver and have avoided serious accidents.

Nice to Have

Now let me talk about what we in the Project Management game call, “Nice to Have’s”. 

Radio

I have researched a replacement system that I think will be great. When I buy it I’ll do a full write up. Bluetooth…backup camera… Van Halen “Eruption” or Wagner’s “Die Walküre” at 120dB depends on your situation.

Air Conditioning

This probably shouldn’t be a nice to have. I live in the southern plains and I promise it gets hot here. This is more than likely going to be a must have/critical. This system is a total loss. I will have to replace EVERYTHING including hoses. The testing for leaks will need to be epic if this is going to be a long term solution.

Power Steering Leak

I STILL have a power steering leak. After all my issues with leaking steering boxes you’d think this wouldn’t plague me. You’ve seen where I bought a rebuilt steering box (Facebook) from Carsteeringwholesale.com (NOT RECOMMENDED, DO NOT TRUST). I received the steering box from them and it was leaking out of the box. I fussed and yelled at them to no avail and they sent me a replacement (that I had to pay shipping on) that leaked EVEN WORSE than the shitty one they sent me to start with. Buyer beware.

I have another slow leak and will at some point need to replace this pump too.

Mystery Leak

My left front hub assembly is leaking. I’m not sure which part has the leak. I’ll have to find it eventually and replace the seal or brake caliper, or whatever it is.

Gas Gauge Uncertainty

When I replaced my last fuel pump (Okierover) I managed to get the float out of sorts and its basically a mystery as to how much fuel I have in the tank at any time except when I fill it. I need to get in there and futz with the level and see if I can fix that.

Cosmetics

Rugs

I would LOVE to have new rugs. Maybe a proper steam cleaning would do the job, I don’t know.

Seat Covers

I have looked at a lot of seat covers. I think I’m leaning toward a NON-Leather cover. Leather covers are readily available and modestly priced. I just think I can get a more durable, no maintenance option sourced that wouldn’t make me cry a little bit inside each time I slide into the BWB with mud all over me or soaking wet. Oklahoma summers are not kind to old leather.

Tint

I don’t need gangster dark tint. I think a tint one these plethora of windows would go a long way toward keeping me cool in the summer.

Paint

The BWB is losing her clearcoat. And the vinyl D pillars are quite knackered. In a perfect world with everything else repaired, I’d probably throw some paint on her.

Eviction

I have a mouse somewhere in the truck. I noticed some evidence of a mouse making its home inside. I couldn’t blame them with -14F this winter. Car spiders (Okierover) are one thing, I can’t have mice.

1: The name Lucas can be licensed by just about anyone wanting to use their name. The last set of “Lucas” parts I got were made in China….CHINA. You should not associate quality replacement parts to anything made in China.

Never fear… I have not let my wrenching skills go to waste. I helped my dear friend Eric and his son Vallie change the plugs and coils on their 2000 Jaguar S-type. We had a great afternoon. And it was a fine example of no matter what you think a job will entail…something will go wrong and will require a part no one has in stock.

Pro Tip: Jaguar (Ford) coolant hose “T”s are made out of some form of plastic-mache and hope.

Thanks for reading and Happy Rovering

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Replacement Fuel Pump Part Numbers (Post #447) 2/10/2014

I was reading a post on the Facebook Land Rover Owners page about the replacement of a fuel pump on a Land Rover Defender. The North American model Defender uses many of the same parts as a Range Rover Classic and Discovery I. If you are a regular reader of the blog you know I’ve just recently replaced my fuel pump and now have a spare unit waiting for the electric pump on the shelf.

https://okierover.com/fuel-pump-replacement/

I’ve posted many times about the prices dealers charge for parts. The major parts houses have good prices but often charge more for a part when an equivalent part can be fond for cheaper if you only knew what the part numbers were.

Auto zone in Boise tried quoting me over $1,000 and I called BS. Is there a certain part number so they don’t try misquoting the price? – Cameron Eugene

 

We all try to find a cheaper price. It is common for a parts supplier to hear Range Rover or Land Rover and they immediately think the owner is made of money.

MONEY-BOAT-web-image-blog
Nearly every one with a television has seen the Geico “Made of Money” commercials.

The gentleman doing the swap is John Monaghan. John works for GB 4×4 Radios. These are the fine folks that upgrade and repair the radio units for Land Rovers.

He had a friend that worked at an Autozone and he let him “browse” the stock to find the right parts. The following quotes are John’s from the thread:

Thank God I have a buddy at Autozone that let me go to the back and look in every box. Ask for this EP375 from a Chevy, now they have it and for just $87. This is priceless info for my fellow American Land Rover brethren, enjoy and save a mint.

acdelco

Even the top electrical connection is the same.
Or you can use US auto store O’Reilly’s. Part numbers there is Delphi: FE0110. And sock filter is Delphi : FS0001.

delco

There are two small plastic lugs on the bottom of the new pump that have to snipped off, dead easy, this way it sits fully in your old base, then you will have to use a new fuel line with two metal hose clamps or in UK Jubilee clips. Job done and a mint saved!

clampWhile I’m here I might as well add this pics, shows both lugs snapped off as needed with needle nose pliers, clamp and the hose size you need

Jeffrey Baker added this for the thread:

Pump fits many V8 GM fuel injected motors. $72 for the Delphi or Bosch part#69218 at NAPA. Carter equivalent is $52 part #p74006. Airtex also makes this pump not sure of number though.

Denis Guyvner added this helpful tip:

I have also heard that what causes these to fail is continually running your fuel level at a low amount. The fuel pump needs the fuel to keep it cool. Heat is what kills the pump.

And finally John Monaghan added this final note:

FYI: I’ve done this A/C Delco fuel pump swap many times on different Rovers in my collection and have saved a fortune over Dealer and OEM Land Rover parts vendor $$$$ pump prices. Looks like I’m going to be doing another this week (will add DIY pics here and A/C Delco pump part numbers), seems my 1988 Classic’s pump is toast too, sat too long low on gas without starting it, so the fuel dries to a varnish up inside the pump’s rotor… locking it solid, then you try several times to start it, the armature in the pump’s electric motor does not move so it burns the carbon brush mounts, rendering the pump dead and beyond repair! So never leave your fuel injected Rover parked up with out starting it monthly and with less than 1/2 a tank of petrol. Lesson learned 🙁

So much great stuff in one post. This might seem like a complicated project. It is not. I walk through it almost step by step in my link above. With a little deductive reasoning most anyone should be able to swap the pump out of the unit especially if it is a near direct swap.

Thanks to all the guys on the thread and thanks to John for great details. It will save us all several hundreds of dollars.

Thanks for reading, check out the Facebook group Land Rover Owners, and Happy Rovering.

 

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