Time for Tires Again (Post #241) 1/7/2011

I’ve blogged about this subject a few times. One of those posts sits in the top position of most pageviews for my site.

As you may have gathered from the post’s title, I’m looking for new tires for the Range Rover Classic. The project and calendar have progressed to the point where it is time for new rubber to meet the road. We have pending snow storm coming on Sunday. It will not be the blizzard we had last year. Hell, it probably won’t even snow enough to measure it. But after the local weathermen(and women) get finished with the weather tonight the grocery stores will have a run on milk, smokes, booze, bread and canned soup. And by Wednesday the roads will be clear so new tires are not an emergency situation and neither is running to the grocery to buy something you can wait a day or two for the trucks to deliver.

Consider this, I have not put even a hundred miles on the Classic since last year’s Snowpocalypse storm the tires on her right now will most likely work just fine. They are bald for sure, but I was able to manage with just a failed viscous coupling and front wheel drive and bald tires in blizzard conditions. Now I have both axles working correctly so…I have that going for me.

I have been digging around on the net and I found some bad news today. Bridgestone Dueler AT REVO’s are being discontinued. At the very least they are on closeout at TireRack.com. It’s no great surprise to me. I knew it would happen. Every time a company produces a product that is genius it only takes a few production runs for someone to change it and thusly screw it up. Or someone at corporate to declare we need a new product and thus kill all the successful products they have produced to date.

This is pushing demand for Bridgestone Dueler AT Revo II’s and the smallest size of that tire which is perfect for your Range Rover, 235/75R16, is listed on TireRack.com as….back ordered. Of course it is, I need to buy four of them. I’m not going to wait for them. My local tire shoppe, Hibdon’s Tire Plus, which is normally able to shit me a pair of Tiffany cuff links on command, can’t get either the Revo or Revo II’s. What the hell is that all about?

So I’m looking for a new tire. I could wait to buy, but there is a pending snow storm coming on Sunday night/Monday. That in itself is not enough reason to go buy tires but I need to start looking. So what do we have available as a replacement.

Here is an obligatory graphic that will be out dated 15 minutes after I post it.

These are the top 7 tires in this category at TireRack.com and an associated observation from my point of view for each…

Kumho Road Venture SAT KL61
Never owned a set. Smallest size 225/75R15. The brand is one of those you perhaps don’t know what to expect. I’ve seen more Kumho tire signs on abandoned tire shops than active ones. But they seem to have hit a homerun with the folks on TireRack.com.

Firestone Destination A/T
Lots of sizes. Firestone let me down in the 1990s with a set of tires and I’ve never forgiven them. You remember when Ford and Firestone were sued for tires that fell apart and caused cars and SUVs to flip over? I had a set of those tires in the smaller 15 inch size. They didn’t get recalled, but they fell apart just like the 16 inch ones. I took them back to Firestone and they would not replace them. I haven’t darkened their door since.

It seems they are using UNI-T technology just like the Bridgestone REVO’s. I also know they are essentially the same company as Bridgestone as one owns the other.

Michelin LTX A/T 2
They made the OEM tires for your Range Rover. Those 205/80R16’s had a distinctive narrow and tall look that can’t be copied. If they weren’t 200-300$(US) more than everyone else I would have bought another set. Another strike against them, I can’t buy them at my tire dealer of choice. That is sad because there is a Michelin plant in Ardmore Oklahoma, and I’m all about buying products made in Oklahoma or at least products made by companies with a presence in Oklahoma.

Bridgestone REVO and Bridgestone REVO II
Discontinued and not available. I am very disappointed in this.

Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor
Not excited about Goodyear. SilentArmor? really? that’s the name you came up with?

Pirelli Scorpion ATR
I saw a set on a truck the other day they looked really good. I’ve never owned a set though. I know they had a tire that was popular with Land Rover owners a decade ago.

I bounced this situation off my friends EGD, Magnum Mike and Titanium Hitch. They sometimes offer sound advice. Most of the time the advice is littered with insults about the Land Rover brand. The gist of their points this time revolved around how much are “you” going to drive the Range Rover. They aren’t too keen with spending the equivalent of the per capita GDP of your average Chadian for tires on a vehicle I’m going to drive only a couple times a week.

This is a good point. I did mention that I’d like to have quality tires because I plan to do some cross country driving. Their observation that I was either stupid or completely mad to drive the Range Rover across the country were well founded. I am often stupid and I am mad to spend the energy I have on a nearly 20 year old Range Rover and to expect it to carry me to California or the Carolina’s is pretty crazy. Can you say AAA? Sure, sure you can.

So I’ll call the tire shoppe and ask them if they carry Pirelli Scorpian ATR‘s. Then I may wait for a month and see if I can get a discount, rebate, Bridgestones, if not, I guess I’ll be rollin’ fat on Pirelli’s.

And if they are willing to have a set on hand, I’m willing to buy them. Of course I will let you know how they perform and whether or not I’d buy them again.

Thanks for reading, stay warm and Happy Rovering.

A Good Long Trip (Post #197) 8/31/2010

The week began with an offer to sell my spare Discovery II rims to a chap named Shaun in Colorado. We worked out the details in the emails we exchanged and it was agreed we would meet in Clayton, New Mexico to swap currency for magnesium.
The shipping cost for the rims was almost as expensive as the rims were themselves. With this in mind I told the perspective buyers I’d meet them in any state surrounding Oklahoma. This worked out great for Shaun as we both had about a 6 hour drive to meet halfway. I love the northeast part New Mexico and this gave me an excellent excuse to drag my wife kicking and screaming take my wife on a nice day long car ride. We both love to drive and it was a good excuse to be together for a whole day of alone time.

So off we went. The first two thirds of the drive are (yawn) pretty boring. We’ve been down this stretch of I-40 so many times I can almost tell you which restrooms are the cleanest in any given season. The fact this stretch is along the “Mother Road” aka Route 66 is the only redeeming quality of the drive. The first segment terminates in Amarillo, which we have deemed, “a stinky little town”. Amarillo is about a third of the size of Oklahoma City. I thought it was bigger than its actual size, but I was wrong.

The second leg begins with a drive through the Canadian River valley north of Amarillo. This stretch then becomes a pool table of corn fields and long stretches of corn and silos and the occasional windmill.

When you finally reach New Mexico you can see an immediate difference. First of which you are out of the hell known as Texas, the second is the dormant volcanoes. In deference to Texas, I personally like the Texas panhandle. It is affectionately know as the llano estacado (Wikipedia). There are lots of stories to translate this name most of them are not true. What you can and should know about it was written by Spanish conquistador Francisco Coronado in 1541, from the Wikipedia site…

“I reached some plains so vast, that I did not find their limit anywhere I went, although I traveled over them for more than 300 leagues … with no more land marks than if we had been swallowed up by the sea … there was not a stone, nor bit of rising ground, nor a tree, nor a shrub, nor anything to go by.”

That’s just about as accurate as you could ask for. Today some of the most interesting things to see are totally abandoned houses and a basketball gymnasium in Perico, Texas.

A good part of the book Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry takes place on these plains. That is part of the appeal to me along with the regions vastness and quite honestly the wind. I love the wind blowing and here it blows constantly. The land is inhabited by an honest and hard working people who are fiercely proud of the land and its lifestyle.

On into New Mexico you begin to see the plateaus and mesas and dormant volcanoes mentioned earlier. The first thing worth stopping at along this route is Clayton, New Mexico. Our intenary had us meeting Shaun and Deb in front of the Ekland Hotel in downtown Clayton. Our plans were to eat a big lunch in the Ekland Hotel restaurant, relax a bit and then head home. We kicked around staying overnight, but gave that up to maximize the funds from the trip to apply to the repairs of the Range Rover LWB. You can see the Honda CRV parked in front of the hotel.

As it turned out, our plans would not have panned out anyway. The Ekland was closed. Mrs. OkieRover visited a shop next door and learned they have been closed for a year. There is a rumor of an investor taking over the place and opening it back up. Money has exchanged hands…nothing has come of it as of this writing. It was a disappointment but then again not too disappointed as we had already adjusted the plans once.

While we waited for Shaun and Deb, I walked around Main Street and took some pictures of the buildings. The Luna Theater, a coffee shop, a grain elevator, City Drug, a barber shop, all the quaint shops you would be disappointed NOT to see in such a town. I even took some pics of the empty restaurant.
Check out all the shots I am posting at my Posterous site. This is a new addition to the OkieRover.com web presence. Alyssa Milano uses Posterous, so I know it’s good.

The town was mostly abandoned due to Old West Days, which was being held a block over. I took a few more pictures and as expected Shaun and Deb showed up in their Range Rover. Their Range Rover was a very nice Callaway edition. It was numbered 007 of which the coolness of that alone need not be explained on this site.

We loaded up the rims. Shaun, like myself, hates to hear noises from the cabin so he was careful to set the rims in such a manner as they did not ding. Deb pointed out that while offroading in their Defender Shaun asked her to, “go back there and find out what is rattling.” I thought that was a very funny story. As I am exactly the same way, I can’t stand load noises. I can safely tell you I would complain about the noise of a truck full of my own gold bars.

I brought along my Discovery II head lamps and a CD magazine hoping that his Range Rover would be able to use them. Sadly neither met the mark and I’ll have to find another person to pass them along to.

Shaun told me he was to use the rims for a set of studded snow tires. The Colorado winters bring with them some ice and snow and a second set of rims and tires for just such weather, I imagine, is a necessity. He said he would run them for the two icy months and then back into the garage they would go. I told him about Nitto tires and their reputation as good ice and snow tires. I’ve read about them on boards and have heard they were good. As I realized later, this was like telling an Eskimo about snow being cold. Shaun was very polite and didn’t tell the “flatlander” how clueless he was sounding.

Our wives shared stories while we packed the Range Rover. We shared some more about the plight of his Defender and its transfer case problems, my Range Rover’s current state of disassembly and the awesomeness of this area. My wife shared that she never tells her dad about our travels until we are home due to his worry that we will be left in a ditch somewhere with our throats cut. We all had a laugh about that.

They noticed I was taking pictures and directed us to a dragon sticking out of a wall on a building’s façade just a few blocks away. We then jumped in our cars and headed up there for more pictures. Deb shared with us that the artist was just across the street.

We bid each other goodbye. They like ourselves, they had other plans for the day. As we pulled out of town my wife and I talked about how awesome a couple they were. Shaun had told us about the Land Rover National Rally being held in Moab and that the Solihull Society was the host club. I’m not sure I will have the Range Rover ready for that this year. It was comforting to know at least two people we really liked would be at this event should we choose to go in the coming years. I hope this meeting with Shaun and Deb would not be our last.

With our lunch/relaxation plans ruined I decided we should go north to Black Mesa. It is the highest point in the state of Oklahoma and a place all OKIES should see and or experience. So we headed north on New Mexico Highway 406. Remote is usually a word we use in Norman to describe a device we use to change the channels on the television. Remote in this part of New Mexico is an understatement of long stretches of highway with no noticeable inhabitants.

At one point we drove for what seemed like an hour and never saw a car in any direction. The weeds grew right up to the pavement causing a tunnel affect in some places. This section is part of, or crosses the Santa Fe Trail. This is one of the trade routes to Santa Fe from the east. The route was used by trappers and traders throughout the fur trade from around 1822 through the 1880s when the rail road came to Santa Fe.

As we moseyed up the trail, I spied an abandoned house. It was close to the road and I decided to explore. It was most likely an early 1900s home. Fairly large considering its location. It was obviously a wealthy person’s home considering the size and appointments inside. The lath dated it for me. Lath walls were used between 1910 and the 1950s when the use declined.

I took a few shots of the inside while the cows stared at me. Realizing I hadn’t brought a feed truck they went back to doing what cows do best, that being making themselves in to tasty things to eat. I finished filling my socks and laces with burrs and got back to the car and we proceeded on up the highway.

We passed miles of cows and pasture only interrupted by a couple of fences and a cattle guard or two. Short of a cowboy working his cows in pen we didn’t see another soul until we reached the “valle escondito”. The road dropped sharply to traverse a nearly dry river. The canyon was picturesque. We passed a couple of pickup trucks along this section. The best part of this section was if you saw something you wanted to take a picture of, you could just stop, RIGHT THERE ON THE HIGHWAY, and take a picture, or twenty. We were truly alone.

We crossed back into Oklahoma. At this point our camera batteries died. I was pretty sure they wouldn’t last the entire trip but I didn’t expect them to die in the middle of the most remote and picturesque parts of the trip. Live and learn I guess.

We sped along until we reached Kenton, Oklahoma. We stopped at this “store” and inquired about batteries. They had nine volts and “C” and “D” cells but no “AA” size. There was very little in the store and we layered on to our disappointment that we couldn’t photograph the town. It was decided that we would have to come back.

View Larger Map

We drove up the road to Black Mesa. More nothing in the middle of nowhere. We did manage to run over a four foot rattlesnake. I tried to miss him/her but it was unavoidable. I’m pretty sure there was no shortage of rattlesnakes in this part of the world so only a few alligator tears where shed.

After Mrs. OkieRover noticed we ran over a snake she began to panic about the snake getting in the car with us. It was hard to contain my laughter as I tried to ease her mind that the snake, no matter how dexterous, could not get IN THE CAR after we had just run him over at 40 mph. My mind immediately started thinking about titles for a movie of such an event. Snakes in a CRV was the first to pop in to my head.

We weren’t quite sure what this building was all about.

View Larger Map
It was totally unused and did not even have a drive or parking lot. I’d love to know who thought this would make a great destination for such a facility. It has lots of potential obviously, but someone pulled the plug on the project before it even got going.

We drove on up to the trailhead for Black Mesa. I read that the hike to the top is 4.2 miles and takes anywhere from 3-5 hours depending on how manly you are. Mrs. OkieRover confided that she was “not the hiking type”. She would not be hiking up. I think the thought of snakes have her a bit shook up.

I got back to the CRV after reading what I could of the information sign which is in need or repair or replacement. I programmed our route home on the Tom Tom. It told us we were 9 hours and some change from home. NINE HOURS???! Mrs. OkieRover was none to happy about that. But it was what it was.

There is a discrepancy between what the Tom Tom says the travel time and how I drive. I am guessing if you drove the EXACT speed limit all the time you would go insane arrive when the Tom Tom says you will. But me, being the Marine that I am, will not be told when I am arriving. I arrive when I want to.
I turned the CRV into the wind (metaphorically speaking that is, as the wind was technically out of the south at 25mph) and headed home. We clipped Boise City and headed south back into hell Texas to pick up the Mother Road/I-40. I set the cruise control to somewhere around 9 miles an hour over the posted speed limit.

This works pretty well for us. A highway patrol friend of mine said he wouldn’t even turn the car around for 9 over. 10 over, that’s speeding. But 9 is debatable. At times I pushed the CRV up to nearly 100mph. The uninhabited panhandle doesn’t exactly have a lot of cars on the road. So being careful to pick stretches I could see for a long way I would cut some time off the trip.

I was cutting several minutes off for every mile I was driving. Before too long the Tom Tom was telling us we would get home around 11pm. When we pulled into the drive way I had gotten us home in a little over 7 hours. That’s not too bad.

We averaged around 25mpg in the CRV. The brand new Yokohama Parada Spec-X tires were quiet and handled well. I’m pretty sure the name “Parada” was chosen because it matched the head designer’s Brazilian girlfriend. They were at the time of this writing number one in their category (round rubber things mounted on rims). The actual category is Street/Sport Truck All-Season Tires. Hopefully the tires won’t break down like the Geolanders I bought in 2001. The sidewall broke down too early and the Range Rover looked like it was driving on clown car wheels. Those Geolanders only went 40,000 miles as well. That was pretty disappointing. I’m hoping for better this time around.

We (I) drove somewhere in the neighborhood of 850 miles. We left at 8am Central Standard time and got home around 11:00pm. It was a long trip but a good one. We both felt like hammered jello the next day. Mrs. OkieRover recovered by taking an afternoon nap. I recovered by putting the differential back in the Range Rover and hooking up the drive shaft.

Don’t forget to check out the pictures posted on my Posterous site.

I highly recommend visiting this region of New Mexico, I loved the remoteness and could in the back of my mind image the hardy men and women who once traversed this trail. They made 10 miles a day with wagons and that was on a good day. If we had the Range Rover on this trip, making 10 miles a day off road would have made this trip even better.

Thanks for reading and Happy Rovering.

Tires….again (Post #131) 3/2/2009


It seems like just a short time ago I bought tires for my Discovery. In fact it has been 47,000 miles ago. The Bridgestone AT REVO’s have been great. As you may recall I bought a set of 16 inch rims and got “real truck tires” for the Discovery. I thought fancifully that I would be able to use the Discovery off-road and would begin modifying her for that purpose. BOY WAS I WRONG!

The funds I envisioned for the modification never happened. My daughter went over budget on her wedding and this was needed and that was desired and presto, I was broke again.

Now it is time to put another driver behind the wheel of an OkieRover vehicle. The Diet Mountain Drew will be using a vehicle this summer as he comes of driving age. He has his choice between the 2002 Ford Taurus and the 2003 Land Rover Discovery. His friends are leaning on him hard to get the Discovery. He has mentioned the cost of operation more than one time in conversation. He is keen to save money and to drive the MUCH MORE economical Taurus. Hands down it gets twice the mileage of the Discovery.

But mom’s four door Taurus doesn’t even compare in coolness to a Land Rover. And I have to agree with the teens on this matter. Heated seats, dual sunroofs, kick ass sound system, 18 inch rims, smooth. Mommy’s Taurus just can’t compete with that.

So back to tires…. I let the wife take the Discovery to retrieve the children from a church function last night. When I got in her this morning put her in reverse, I heard the scratch, scratch, scratch of a tire that obviously had a large nail or bolt in it. So I jumped out at my first car pool pick up point and sure enough it’s a bolt. My guess is a lag bolt you might use for a wood panel fence project.

Needless to say I’m absolutely thrilled! (end sarcasm) I was hoping to hold out until summer to buy a new set of tires. The tire guys are just going to laugh when I ask them if that tire can be repaired. The tread is well worn as you can imagine.

So we have two considerations. Tires for the 16 inch rims or tires for the 18 inch rims?

I have priced and read about tires all morning. The obvious choice is a new set of Bridgestone AT REVOs for the 16 inch rims. But there is that spectre of Diet Mountain Drew and his request that the 18 inch rims go back on the Disco when he starts driving her.

So which tires do I get for the 18 inch rims?
With most tire prices hovering around 200$(US) and up the choice really comes down to each tire’s rating. For that money I better be getting some damn good tires.


If you read the Land Rover Only Forum the obvious choice is the Nitto Terra Grappler. And Big O Tires has them for roughly 187$(US) a tire. So I could get off-road tires for the 18 inch rims. That’s a thought. Those tires were not available when I bought the 16 inch rims and tires. I remember seeing the announcement that they would make the tire in 255/55-18 size. I remember thinking well that was just awesome.

So I jumped on TireRack.com and did my tire research. I looked at all of the brands I normally consider. And when I decided I didn’t want to spend the gross national product of Chad to buy tires for my Discovery, I started looking at brands I might not normally consider.

Tire Bias
I am a self confessed tire snob. I like the “name brands”. I feel like I know what I’m getting when I pay a little more for something based on marketing. But there in lies the folly of the tire purchase. Cooper Tires advertise like crazy and they don’t have much of a reputation with me or anyone I know. They sell a lot of tires overseas. They have a racing pedigree. Sadly for them, I don’t follow racing.


Nitto doesn’t market their tires at all compared to the big three, Firestone, Goodyear, Michelin. At least not in the TV and radio realms of advertising. If you look at most of the “second tier” tire brands you will find the same thing. Short of a couple of signs in front of independent dealers there is very little advertising.

So we as consumers look at the ratings and hope we are getting a good tire. I found such a tire when I looked at the Continental Cross Contact LX. Normally I would not buy a Continental tire. But the ratings for that tire were great on TireRack.com. It is an exceptional tire. As I read about the Terra Grapplers I saw a lot of what turned me away from Yokohama tires after one purchase, tread life was very poor.

So I can save myself around 40-80$(US) for cheaper tires with poor tread life or spend a bit more and have the tires around for a while longer. It probably works out to a nice number if I did the math. 30-35,000 miles out of a 700 dollar set of tires or 50-55,000 miles out of a higher priced set with a cap of expense at 900 bucks. The most I’ve ever spend for a set of tires was 870 dollars.

There is also the consideration of customer service. Customer service is dead. I’ve said it many times. But I have been buying tires at my local Hibdon Tires Center forever. They sold out to Tires Plus and nearly went out of business in Oklahoma until they added the Hibdon name to the stores. So now they are Hibdon Tires Plus. The Hibdon’s are from my old hometown of Newcastle. I went to school with them, I served in the Marines with one of them.

The Hibdon’s always stood behind the tires they sold. Almost ridiculously at times. I’ve taken tires down there that were nearly flat, driven flat and they replaced them, no questions asked. Today they have a more sophisticated system for tracking the tires and thusly their warranty of tires. But it is still fair. And they match what ever price you can find. Period. If I had one complaint they can’t see the historical record of my purchases. Return customers should be rewarded.

I found a cheap price on TireRack.com got the shipping lined up, got another independent tire shop lined up to install the tires (for an additional fee) and planned to get the rebate. I tallied that all up and Hibdon still beat it. I didn’t even have to cajole them. His first call back price was cheaper than all the above and I had just one stop to buy the tires.

How can you beat that? I don’t think you can, not in Oklahoma anyway. So I’m going to buy some Continental Cross Contact LX tires for my 18 inch rims. I’m even getting a 75$(US) gift card for buying them. And when my son comes to his senses and tells us he wants to drive the Taurus…I’ll be cruisin’ fat on my 18’s for forty thousand miles boyee.
Or I think that’s how they say it in Hipster Town.

Thanks for reading and Happy Rovering.

Postscript: I’ve decided to sell my 16 inch rims. If you are interested send me an email. I’m thinking 275$ plus shipping.

January 31st, 2005 (Post #57)

January 31st, 2005
New tires on
The Bridgestone Dueler A/T Revo II’s are on the Rover. And I have noticed a rougher ride than I expected. 8 ply tires are much stiffer than the Yokohamas I had before. I notice this most when the CD player skips on the concrete seems of the highways. To have that quality of tire, I am learning to live with it.

One of the heater supply hoses failed. So as you do you replace them all. Well all included just two this time. Check out the replacement on the Heater Supply Hose Page.

After I finished the repair I got a Check Engine Light. The corresponding code was a 14.
More on that at on the Error Code 14.

BWB’s air conditioning cooling fans have always run. I never really thought about it until this latest episode. Upon reflection I realized that I am probably wasting a bit of fuel economy running them when they are not necessary, like when the air temp is below 20 degrees and I’m going 70mph on the highway. I found the problem with the help of the guys at Atlantic British. I sent them a picture of the sensors I tested and new had failed and they told me which sensor had failed that caused the Error 14 I was having. Their tech helped me make sense of the many temperature sensors.

I had asked for help on several boards with no responses. Either everyone already knew this info and didn’t feel like sharing or no one really understands it. Now I have a good idea of the sensors what happens when they fail. My meager understanding of these is found on Temp Sensors Page.

January 10th, 2005 (Post #56)

January 10th, 2005
New tires on, Throttle Position Sensor Image Uploaded, Lense covers re-installed
The Bridgestone Dueler A/T Revo II’s are on the Rover. They look good and ride high. The wet roads have been no challenge so far and snow is expected for later this week so I’m all prepared.

I had a request for an image of the Throttle Position Sensor. So I uploaded an image so I have a quick reference image ready when asked again. Check it out here, TPS location.

Lense covers are now re-installed. As you may (or may not) recall the Norman Sanitation truck knocked one of them off a couple of Thanksgivings ago. Since then I have been redesigning how they go back on the BWB or carrying them around. You can read about that at the Lens Guards Page.

I’m still working on the sun roof cover. I will investigate the problem with the AM radio stations while I have the headliner out. I might even replace my speakers in the rear to match the front speakers.

January 4th, 2005 (Post #56)

January 4th, 2005
New tires ordered
I ordered the new tires. My Yokohama Geolanders are now 3+ years old and need to be replaced. After extensive research I did indeed order the Bridgestone Dueler A/T Revo II’s. I couldn’t put a lift kit on just now so I ordered 225 75R16s in load range D. I am hoping they will be great. All the press on them tells me they will be great, but when your spending $750 (US) for tires you want to be right. I’ll post some pics when they come in and are on the BWB.